In-Camera Sharpening Settings

[Brant]

This question relates loosely to another post as yet unanswered. If one reduces the sharpening and detail settings, (in my case sharpening -2, detail -1), is that softening the image coming off the sensor, or is it simply reducing the amount of sharpening that happens to the signal in signal processing? In other words, if I want the most flexibility to adjust sharpening in post without "destruction" of the already baked-in Pro Res image, is it ok to reduce the sharpness somewhat, without worrying that I am losing detail that is not recoverable? What is the difference between "detail" and "sharpness" in so far as the Mini processes the signal? Is reducing these levels below "0" permanently destructive to the image regardless of post sharpening?

One other note - when the Mini is operated via wifi, for some reason, sharpness and detail are impossible to change via the hosted web browser on an iPad or iPhone. The numbers do not change by typing over them. I have managed to copy and paste a new setting, but it does not always work. With other settings, this is not an issue, but for these, and audio levels (even more vexing), it is. Can this be addressed in a firmware revision?

[Georg Lanz]

Hi Brant!

One other note - when the Mini is operated via wifi, for some reason, sharpness and detail are impossible to change via the hosted web browser on an iPad or iPhone. The numbers do not change by typing over them. I have managed to copy and paste a new setting, but it does not always work. With other settings, this is not an issue, but for these, and audio levels (even more vexing), it is. Can this be addressed in a firmware revision?

While checking those Settings I found them adjustable on my iPhone 6s using Safari and Chrome on iOS 10. Would it be possible to elaborate on your specific setup to help find the root of the problem? Helpful would be the specific Device you are using as well as the Software Version your phone is running. Another relevant piece of information would be the Software Version running on your Mini.
Regards, Georg

[Brant]

Hi Georg,

My devices for controlling the Mini are an iPhone 6s running 10.1.1, and an iPad3 running 10.1.1, U.S. versions of both. I have had several IOS updates and the behavior of the Mini with regard to deeper menu settings which require numerical input by selecting the numbers key, has not changed, I am running the most recent firmware currently available for the Mini, and ran the previous version 4 as well, and the behavior has not ever changed.

To elaborate, it is not possible to use the delete key on an iPhone or an iPad to erase existing numerical values for sharpness and detail, or audio levels. The cursor does move, but it only moves past the digits. They do not change. When attempting to overwrite existing values by typing numbers with the iPhone or iPad number keys, the cursor may move, but numbers remain unchanged, particularly with negative values. What sometimes works is going into Apple Notepad, and typing the desire value, copying it, and pasting in the sharpness or detail slot. It works sometimes, and often not.

I can make a short video clip showing the behavior middle of next week.

Any insight into the sharpness and detail settings as described in my original post would be greatly appreciated!

[Jan Heugel]

Dear Brant,

the detail/sharpness setting takes place during the de-bayering:

ALF2_vsALF1_Color Pipeline_detail-sharpness_kl.jpg

cheers,
jan

[Georg Lanz]

My devices for controlling the Mini are an iPhone 6s running 10.1.1, and an iPad3 running 10.1.1, U.S. versions of both. I have had several IOS updates and the behavior of the Mini with regard to deeper menu settings which require numerical input by selecting the numbers key, has not changed, I am running the most recent firmware currently available for the Mini, and ran the previous version 4 as well, and the behavior has not ever changed.

Hey Brant,
I used the exact same setup that you described. The delete key does in fact not work, that is due to technical limitations. Overwriting the numbers however works for me. I made a small video on my iPhone that demonstrates how I proceed to alter the sharpness values. Could you check if my procedure works for you or at what point you can not reproduce my steps?
You can find the video here: https://webgate.de/en/directlink/aa0619c305c57ad4
I hope we can solve this issue for you.

Regards, Georg

[Brant]

Thank you for your follow up and video recording from the iPhone. It has been about two weeks since my last shoot, and I just tested my Mini again, to verify the fault or question my sanity for having seen it so often! Initially the Mini's web host site behaved exactly as it should, and as it does in your video. I changed values in sharpness, detail, and then audio, with no problem. Then I returned to the sharpness setting, and I believe I hit the "minus" key which appears under the "1,2" on the keypad, and upon doing that, a consistent fault occurred in the sharpness setting. The delete key, which I use to just move the cursor to the left, had no effect on its position. It did not change the position of the cursor. Typing in new number values also had no effect, so the problem was duplicated. But while the sharpness setting failed, the detail setting still worked. I can try to record this with a device or app if you have one to recommend.

And thank you for the very informative chart above. Do sharpness and detail settings have any impact during RAW recording? And is raw image recording identical in the Alexa SXT, Mini, and Amira, given equivalent resolution?

[Jan Heugel]

Hey Brant,

I stick to your last two questions and leave the rest for Georg.

The impact of these settings during MXF/ARRIRAW recording is a metadata value within the raw header. Which may or may not be used afterwards.

Yes ARRIRAW recording/image quality is identical within the ALEXA family. AMIRA does not support raw recording.

Jan

[Georg Lanz]

The delete key, which I use to just move the cursor to the left, had no effect on its position. It did not change the position of the cursor.

Hey Brant,
since the Webremote is a mirroring of the in-camera menu where you turn the clickwheel to change the numerical values it does not support to be "empty". Therefore if you press delete the Camera will automatically fill in the last used value so that the field is never empty. The effect is that your cursor remains on its position. The solution was to allow you to overwrite the values with new ones so that the box is not empty but just replaces values (a 2 for the 0 or something).
Perhaps you could try to move the cursor with the Arrow-Buttons on your iPhone Keyboard. (I marked them pink in the attached picture)
A video of the behaviour would certainly be helpful for us the reproduce your problem. The easiest solution (if you have access to a Mac) to get this is the following:
-Attach you iPhone to your Mac via cable
-Start the app "QuickTime Player"
-In the Menu at the top of the screen select: FILE > NEW MOVIE RECORDING
-You should see your iPhones screen mirrored on the Monitor. Now you can start recording and save the video as MOV afterwards.

Thank you for your patience,
Georg

[Brant]

Thanks for your message Georg, and letting me know how to record the iPhone output. Since knowing to avoid the delete key, and perhaps for reasons having to do with other factors, like, perhaps iOS improvements, I have noticed enormous improvement in my ability to change those values in the menu. However, in an attempt to "break" the interface in order for you to potentially improve it further or offer future documentation changes, I did manage to clumsily enter values (as I may have previously), which did render settings changes impossible for sharpness and detail. I will add, that for whatever reason in previous iOS versions (or who knows why) it was nearly impossible for me to make changes. Now, I can quite easily, but still managed to duplicate the original fault. It may have something to do with using the delete key, the minus key, entering values with the cursor in the wrong position, or all of those things, that temporarily "break" the ability to enter the values.
In this example, I started with the sharpness setting already "broken", then fixed it. Then managed to break the detail setting input.



Thank you again for your follow up!