Alexa Mini vs Red weapon helium

[dbauch]

Hi,

Coming from a red epic dragon, I've always lusted after the Alexa look. I'm currently torn between a cutting edge sensor in the weapon helium and the tried and tested Alev III.
My 3 concerns are:
1. The resolution, not being true 4K.
2. The age of the sensor, after dropping a large amount of cash will a new sensor come trough in less than a year and make me cry.
3. The lack of highframe rates in raw, how sharp and clean are the 2k hfr prores favors.
4. Ergonomics,

Would really appreciate some user feedback as I would love to get into a mini but it has make sense for me future wise.

Thanks!

[Jan Heugel]

Dear Dominik,

I'm keen to read what the Mini-users say, just like to comment on no. 3:

There's no difference in image quality in a hfr compared to a non-hfr ProRes. Both times the images undergo the same ProRes compression and originate from the same source resolution.

[NateWeaver]

My 3 concerns are:
1. The resolution, not being true 4K.

Not sure why this is an issue unless you shoot or rent to jobs making content for Netflix or Hulu. Branded content/ad agencies are still finishing 1080.

Shooting UHD mode is a visible step up and will satisfy most reasonable customers looking for 4k finish.

2. The age of the sensor, after dropping a large amount of cash will a new sensor come trough in less than a year and make me cry.

When Arri does release whatever new sensor that is in the pipeline, you can bet it will be either an upgrade for the SXT or a whole new camera at the SXTs price point. It won't be trickling down to the Amira/Mini price point until some time after it's announced (i.e. a year or more). And even then, Amira/Mini residual values will hold steady.

3. The lack of highframe rates in raw, how sharp and clean are the 2k hfr prores favors.

ARRIRAW is uncompressed. You need to test Prores 444 and XQ in LogC before assuming you need raw. There is zero quality hit at 200fps in ProRes

4. Ergonomics,

With care, a Mini can be turned into a lean mean machine with little or none PIA factor for handheld. But you have to carefully vet your AKS you purchase.

Would really appreciate some user feedback as I would love to get into a mini but it has make sense for me future wise.

My Mini has been a tremendous business asset and revenue generator. Image quality first, marketability to jobs second, concern about 4k last.

[dbauch]

Thanks for the insight, much appreciated. Just pulled the trigger last night and am super happy.
I actually did some tests yesterday and was extremely impressed when blowing up the footage, looked better than waht I used to get with 6k r3d's. Very impressive.
In Resolve, the only thing I struggled with is pro res 4444 color, when I used both these and arriraw in the same timeline and exported a prores 422, the arriraw came out as expected but any of the prores 4444 originated clips were lifted and washed out.... Everything looked fine on the timeline.
Anyone know a work around?

[NateWeaver]

In Resolve, the only thing I struggled with is pro res 4444 color, when I used both these and arriraw in the same timeline and exported a prores 422, the arriraw came out as expected but any of the prores 4444 originated clips were lifted and washed out.... Everything looked fine on the timeline.
Anyone know a work around?

This would be due to mismatching levels, LogC clips expect a LUT to be applied as "video levels" as opposed to "data levels".

[Stout Film]

I thought about some of this before buying as well. I'm familiar with both systems, have used Red a lot but not Red 8K helium yet. There have been lots of good points already, but I will add that I went with Arri in part because they are not in the game of screwing their customers over with a new camera and/or sensor every day you wake up in the morning. I got really tired of feeling like there was a ladder to climb with new rungs placed at the top constantly. When you buy Arri your investment will be much more predictable and a much longer period where the camera will be at the top of the pack and desirable for jobs. I don't like the race to the highest resolution possible. 2K on an Arri looks amazing. 3.2K native is plenty for either repositioning in post or a 4K output. Red looks better when you shoot in the highest resolution and finish 2K, Arri already looks good at 2K. I don't want to deal with 8K files, I want a very straightforward and simple way to manage media, with an image that looks as good as possible right out of the camera.

I will say the flip side of Arri not racing to new cameras each day is that innovations come more slowly. There's things I'd change about the Mini (or any of their cameras) of course, and the hardware changes are not likely to be addressed very soon. But they do offer free SUP changes with improvements (with some paid licenses). Red and Canon and Sony, etc. are in such a race with themselves and each other it keeps us reading releases and not actually filming with the cameras like we should be doing.
Red will have a 10K camera to boast as soon as people invest enough in their 8K. How many 6K weapon owners felt like they had the baddest camera in the world a few months ago, and now feel a smidge on the short side? I don't think they should feel small, I just think that manufacturer promotes that mentality and that's a shame. Or just take their macho branding as tip. If you literally like "weapons" and a "bomb"-evf go with a blood red machine. Too each their own, but the marketing is a shortcut to knowing what you get and who your dealing with.

These thoughts all come 2nd to how much I like the picture. You noted you prefer Arri as well and I'm glad you went with that. To me Red can look really good but always looks very video to my eye. Arri looks more natural and organic. Red like a commercial, Arri like a movie (though either can pull off both). I think both looks have their place but I care more about the natural/organic.

This all said, I'd own both if I had the money Hope I don't have any Red fans snipe me after this!

[dbauch]

Good thoughts, appreciate your insights.
You mentioned that downscaled 6k Red to HD looks better than 2k Arriraw?
Personally haven't found that to be the case with the tests I did. Actually had a sharper picture out of the mini, hoping that sharpness isn't an issue, 2k mastered features shot on Alexa are the staple of movie theaters right? So seems like it holds up pretty well.

[Stout Film]

Good thoughts, appreciate your insights.
You mentioned that downscaled 6k Red to HD looks better than 2k Arriraw?
Personally haven't found that to be the case with the tests I did. Actually had a sharper picture out of the mini, hoping that sharpness isn't an issue, 2k mastered features shot on Alexa are the staple of movie theaters right? So seems like it holds up pretty well.

Hi dbauch, if you were referring to my post I was not saying 6K Red downscaled looks better than 2K Arri. I was saying 6K Red downscaled looks better than 2K Red or 4K Red, and that I don't want to deal with resolution that is way higher than I should need the way Red does things. Cheers!

[dbauch]

Ahh, sorry. Glad I misunderstood. Totally agree with you there.

[kokorecci]

We own three of these cameras you are talking about also Mini has arriraw license too.
Saying alexa mini sharper than Weapon 6K is just nonsense.Take of your glasses have a good look at those files sorry
When it comes 8K helium sensor its even 2X sharper than Weapon Dragon sensor its like day and night sharpness difference between two and it would be way non-fair against alexa mini if you compare it against Helium sensor.
However i did compare both you can read the writings clearly on 8K helium, On alexa Mini you can see just square pixels with weird color lol.Helium is monster by resolution.
If you still thinking which one to buy go with Alexa mini Resolution and sharpness not everything..